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Thomas M Gregg's avatar

I’m unconvinced that Russia is capable of mounting a serious military threat to NATO. It’s been over three years since V. Putin’s legions invaded Ukraine, and they still haven’t managed to deliver a knockout blow. That hardly suggests that Russia is or will be able to widen the war.

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Max Wolf Valerio's avatar

The truly odd thing is that Trump has admitted on live TV, in a conversation with news reporters at the border prior to the election, that he lost. He says, “We lost by a whisker.” At the debate, ABC news anchor David Muir asked him about this comment saying something to the effect of “Now that you have admitted that you lost…” And Trump denied he said that. Muir pointed out it was on video. Trump then said he was being “sarcastic”. Muir said, “You didn’t sound sarcastic” and moved on since Trump obviously didn’t want to answer the related question. Later, Trump would say again that “we lost by a whisker” but then, in later clips deny that he lost. So, he knows he lost. And yet, he deceived his supporters otherwise and encouraged them to revolt against a “rigged” and “stolen” election. He apparently didn’t care what happened to them or what happened to the people they attacked. This is damning. I mean, it is —- evil.

So much of what Trump is doing now, so quickly, is unbelievable. Like you Claire, I’m in shock each day. He’s doing so many things at the same time that are so insane and that must be — unconstitutional. I once supported him reluctantly and then, not so reluctantly though I was never super MAGA — but now my eyes have been opened. This man has been dividing us against each other and manipulating the country for ten years now — and it will only get worse.

When so many of his supporters became Covid denialists, I turned the other way. Now he’s shutting down the NIH temporarily at least — and withdrawing from the WHO — and wants to put RFK Jr. in charge of healthcare. Unbelievable but it is happening before our eyes.

I’m beyond worry. Thank you for all your hard work on this.

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André Bauer's avatar

I have yet to see a good explanation for Trump‘s unlawful attempt to abolish the 14th Amendment via executive order by the MAGA-faction. It is also bit rich to complain about Two Tier Keir on the one hand, while endorsing Trump, who on the other hand just gave carte blanche to ‚his‘ very own militias.

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WigWag's avatar

So Claire, you don’t like the pardons Trump issued. Does your outrage extend to the pardon Biden issued to Tony Fauci?

Take a look at that particular pardon. Why do you think it provides Fauci with immunity that extends all the way back to 2014? After all, Covid didn’t make its appearance until at least five years later. What could Fauci possibly need to be protected from for behavior that goes back so far before Covid reared its ugly head?

The answer is that it was in 2014 that Fauci’s Institute, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, first began funding gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The grant was renewed annually with Fauci’s blessing in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. For this entire period there was a presidential ordered moratorium on NIH funding of gain of function research. Either Fauci criminally ignored the moratorium or was given special dispensation to ignore it in light of his role as the American bioterrorism Czar.

Given the overwhelming circumstantial evidence that Covid was created through gain of function research that took place in Wuhan and given the fact that the NIH was complicit in supporting the Wuhan Institute’s gain of function research, do you believe Fauci should have been pardoned?

On more than one occasion, Fauci testified under oath before the United States Senate that his institute never funded gain of function research in Wuhan. That was a lie and Fauci’s attempt to explain it away by obfuscating what gain of function actually means doesn’t pass the smell test. His defense smacks of Bill Clinton’s testimony in the Monica Lewinsky case where Clinton famously said, “it depends what the definition of is is.”

The one good thing about the Fauci pardon is that because he’s no longer subject to prosecution, he can no longer invoke his Fifth Amendment privilege against self incrimination. When he is subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury or a congressional committee as he surely will be thanks to Trump, he will have to testify truthfully or the pardon he received from Biden won’t protect him from prosecution.

Given the plausible possibility that the gain of function research he approved in Wuhan might be at least tangentially related to the deaths of seven million people around the world, Biden’s pardon of Fauci seems a bit questionable, don’t you think?

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Claire Berlinski's avatar

I agree that Fauci shouldn't have been pardoned. I agree that his role in supporting research in Wuhan appears to have been sinister. My suspicions are the same as yours: there's quite a bit of evidence to suggest Fauci tried to cover up and obfuscate the role of the NIH in authorizing that research.

But I don't trust a Justice Department in which every competent prosecutor has been replaced by Trump's flunkies to handle that prosecution. I I haven't yet seen a single person in Trump's coterie or the GOP who gives the impression of understanding what the issues and the evidence are. When Congress tried to hold hearings, it devolved into a nightmare of scientific illiteracy (on both sides). Investigating and, if appropriate, prosecuting Fauci requires prosecutors with a high level of technical competence.

I could imagine a successful class action lawsuit against Fauci, and I'm surprised that it hasn't happened already.

The number of people who died and will die from Covid is far, far more than 7 million.

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WigWag's avatar

“I haven't yet seen a single person in Trump's coterie or the GOP who gives the impression of understanding what the issues and the evidence are.” (Claire Berlinski)

The new Attorney General is highly accomplished and experienced. She was a well respected corporate lawyer and served as Florida’s Attorney General for eight years. She’s as qualified as anyone in the United States to serve in her new position. A decision to investigate and potentially prosecute someone with Fauci’s reputation would have to be made by her personally.

Under Biondi there are numerous career prosecutors she could call on to lead the case. She also has the option of bringing in outside expert counsel to assist her career prosecutors.

It’s not true to suggest that the Trump Justice Department could not have competently pursued a case against Fauci if it had chosen to do so.

Biden’s pardon of Fauci makes all of this moot.

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Mike Young's avatar

So what can we do now to keep our sanity and at least slow the rot?

My sister and I are old farts, I'm 78, she's 87. We're still fine, but seeing what's coming we think maybe we were lucky to live in good times. I worry about my four grandkids though.

We're in Canada, but we are still impacted by Trump's decisions. And we have our own growing right wing, full of slogans and misinformation.

For sanity it helps me to be a creator, not just a consumer. SubStack is a great new platform for me to record my podcasts of classic stories, post a Sunday collection of sparkly things, and start a daily post of political articles that catch my eye, while adding in some commentary. I'm learning how to play a keyboard (again) and doing some urban sketching - badly. And always adding new technologies to my knowledge. And foster friendships.

To slow or remove the rot - the above modest attempt at some political monitoring and commentary, to maybe educate, maybe encourage discussion. I support a local politician (NDP) that is not nearly as bad as the others - he tries to do what he can within the system. I support good journalists and the few media outlets that still count. I vote and encourage others to do so. And I raised one politically active child, they work with Elections Canada coordinating voter education programs in schools and remote communities.

All we really can do in this span is to grow ourselves, be kind to others, and try to leave our corner of the world a little better for us occupying it.

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Claire Berlinski's avatar

See if you can find yourself a copy of "What I Believe," by EM Forster. I took great comfort in re-reading him.

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Mike Young's avatar

I enjoyed his "Room With a View" and even podcasted it. Unfortunately I can't find "What I Believe" so far.

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Mike Young's avatar

Thank you!

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Silke Silke's avatar

I guess the ASIN info is Kindle international - Alas Amazon allows me to search for e-stuff only 🇩🇪

It is a 65 page edition of EM Forster What I believe, one of a total of 5 essays by different authors.

Produktdetails

ASIN: B01N1TUL2P

Herausgeber: G.W. Foote & Co. Ltd. (18. Dezember 2016)

Sprache: Englisch

Dateigröße: 1257 KB

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Mike Young's avatar

The essay is included in Two Cheers for Democracy. It's in Amazon

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Jonathan Blake's avatar

Oh, Claire... My heart goes out to you.

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E Hines's avatar

Couple of things here.

"...now the insurrectionists have been pardoned—the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, the “Camp Auschwitz” guy, all of them."

Actually, not a single insurrectionist has even been arrested, much less brought to trial and convicted. The insurrections that occurred were in Zuccotti Park, Minneapolis-St Paul, Seattle, Portland in 2020 and in the case of Zuccotti Park in 2011. The Capitol rioters were en masse swept up in an operation that would have done Hitler's goons (another of your favorite shibboleths) proud, heavily overcharged, and heavily oversentenced. During their pretrial lockups, they were too often kept in cold, unsanitary conditions, too often further in isolation. Many of the ones Trump pardoned haven't even had their trials, yet, four years later. Apparently, the 6th Amendment is only a suggestion for the Left and Progressive-Democratic Party politicians. The Biden administration's treatment of these rioters has been as un-American as it gets, as has been the blanket look-the-other-way behavior regarding the insurrectionists of the State and local administrations.

The other thing is this one:

"He signed an executive action delaying the enforcement of the TikTok ban by 75 days. (He has no authority to do this.)"

Actually, he has the authority to delay enforcement for 90 days if there are serious discussions for the sale of TikTok in progress. There are a number of offers on the table, and Xi has indicated a willingness to talk. Whether these can be taken to be serious is a separate matter, but Trump's delay is much less than the delay allowed.

Bonus: "That hat [Melania's] was strange and sinister. It was something a woman with an unwholesome interest in Dalmatian puppies might wear."

This is just petty and I would have thought beneath you. The First Lady's hat reminded me of Hannie Caulder, another self-made, successful, strong, intelligent woman.

Eric Hines

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Claire Berlinski's avatar

I agree that our inability to conduct speedy trials is a national shame and a gross violation of the Constitution. But in this, the insurrectionists (and of course they were insurrectionists) received treatment no different from everyone else in our criminal justice system. Our prisons are indeed often cold or unsanitary. But again, this is a national problem, not one specific to these inmates.

The riot was one of the worst days for law enforcement since 9/11. They did more than $3 million of damage to the Capitol building and grounds. More than 173 officers were injured, some very severely. Their psychological injuries were also severe. Officer Aquilino Gonell, for example, who was assaulted by more than 40 rioters, has undergone multiple surgeries. He still suffers from severe physical and psychological aftereffects. Officer Sicknick died having suffered multiple strokes hours after confronting the mob. Two more officers died, by their own hands, within two days: “Officer Jeffrey Smith was a mentally healthy person who received a blow to the head, began to exhibit symptoms he had never exhibited before, and nine days later died by suicide," according to a letter requesting Officer Smith be granted a line-of-duty death designation. Two more died by suicide within months. Hundreds of Capitol workers were traumatized by the mob.

I could extend this account by paragraph after paragraph, but you know all of this, I'm sure. The police were attacked with bear spray, flagpoles, their own equipment. Many testified that they thought they would die that day. The rioters dragged one officer into the crowd, where they beat and tased him while yelling “Kill him with his gun!”

You can read an extensive catalogue of the cases from January 6 here: https://apnews.com/projects/january-6-cases/index.html. There is absolutely no reason not to think these convictions sound.

None of the protests you mentioned, including the violent ones, were deliberately encouraged by a president who sought to overturn an election and usurp power illegally. I agree that it was obscene to charge the fools who believed his lies without putting Trump, the instigator-in-Chief, behind bars. Trump should, absolutely, be behind bars--he should've been arrested that very day. Unfortunately, our justice system failed.

It is not made better by releasing radicalized, violent criminals into American streets.

This is the kind of person now walking free:

"At approximately 4:27 p.m., Jenkins grabbed one of the riot shields the other rioters had stolen from officers and carried it with him as he climbed the steps leading to the Tunnel. Jenkins joined other rioters in a concerted assault on the officers defending the Tunnel entrance. As other rioters also attacked, Jenkins hurled nine different objects at the officers, including a solid wooden desk drawer. In addition to the desk drawer, Jenkins threw a flagpole, a metal walking stick, and a broken wooden pole with a spear-like point at police in the Tunnel. After his ninth attack, Jenkins returned to the window ledge where he had been standing earlier, retrieved his backpack, and left the area.

"In the days and weeks after the riot, Jenkins took to social media to brag about his conduct at the Capitol, calling the police "trash" and confirming that his motive had been to interfere with the certification of the election. In a message sent to an associate following the events of January 6th, Jenkins wrote, "I have murder in my heart and head."

As far as I know, many people were indeed prosecuted for offenses that took place during riots in Minneapolis, Seattle, and Portland. I don't know if there were extensive prosecutions for criminal behavior in Zuccotti Park. But none of those people got anywhere *near* interfering, for the first time in our history, with the peaceful transfer of power. None of them sought to do so, either.

Complete versions of most of the public court documents are available at https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases. This is a summary based on those documents:

Arrests: More than 1,488 defendants were charged.

Charges:

· 547 defendants were charged with assaulting, resisting, or impeding officers or employees, including about 163 individuals charged with using a deadly or dangerous weapon or causing serious bodily injury to an officer.

· 11 were arrested on charges related to assaulting journalists.

· 1,417 defendants were charged with entering or remaining in a restricted federal building or grounds; of these, 171 of them were charged with entering a restricted area with a dangerous or deadly weapon.

· 87 were charged with destruction of government property, and 66 werecharged with theft of government property.

· 259 defendants were charged with corruptly obstructing, influencing, or impeding an official proceeding, or attempting to do so when the Supreme Court issued its opinion in Fischer v. United States, 23-5572, which narrowed the conduct that could violate the statute at issue, before remanding to the D.C. Circuit for further proceedings. Of these 259 defendants, 133 had been sentenced as of last August.

76 were convicted of this and other felonies. 40 of the 133 were convicted of this and no other felony--they received probation and have already finished their sentence. Nearly all the remaining 126 defendants are on ***pretrial release*** while awaiting sentencing or trial.

The limited number who were detained pre-trial were either charged with other felonies, serving sentences in *other* criminal matters, or failed to comply with the terms of their pre-trial release.

· There were *zero* cases where a defendant was charged only with corruptly obstructing, influencing, or impeding an official proceeding, or attempting to do so. Every defendant also faced other criminal charges—felonies, misdemeanors, or both.

What happened on January 6 cannot be minimized. I have absolutely no sympathy for men and women who attack police officers. Most were convicted by a jury of their peers; those who remained in pretrial detention remained there because they were a risk to the public. Cold? Unsanitary? I agree that not a single one of our prisoners should be cold or unsanitary, because civilized people do not treat prisoners this way. But there are a lot of people who have been incarcerated in America who would be a lot higher up on my list of people for whom to feel sorry than this lot of thuggish vandals, cop-killers, and traitors.

As for Melania's hat, my father liked it, too. To each his own, but I thought looked like she was attending a mob funeral. Ivanka, as I said, looked sensational. My fashion judgments and my political judgments are independent.

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WigWag's avatar

Every one of these supposed facts were known before the 2024 election. Despite this, almost every national police union in the United States endorsed Donald Trump’s candidacy not Kamala Harris’ candidacy. Trump was endorsed by:

National Association of Police Organizations representing 241 thousand police officers.

Fraternal Order of Police representing 377 thousand police officers.

International Association of Police Officers. I’m not sure how many officers they represent.

Trump was also endorsed by numerous state and city police locals. Was Harris endorsed by any? Maybe, but the number most be vanishingly small.

Does anyone doubt that Trump won the majority of votes cast by police officers? Obviously, rank and file cops believed that Harris was a far bigger threat to their safety and their livelihood than Trump. It would appear that police officers view the “facts” as unearthed by the January 6th Congressional Committee to be little more than propaganda.

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tom flemming's avatar

Small footnote to this: some face-eating leopard party regret just expressed here https://www.axios.com/2025/01/22/police-union-trump-jan-6-pardons

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WigWag's avatar

Yes, I saw that. Nevertheless, they knew what Trump was going to do and they endorsed him anyway. My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that 80 percent of the cops in America voted for Trump.

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tom flemming's avatar

I assumed they knew too, it seemed pretty obvious from what he's been saying. Seems to have left a few others squirming, but I'm sure they will get over it... https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5100220-speaker-johnson-trump-jan-6-pardons/

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Claire Berlinski's avatar

And this is relevant why?

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WigWag's avatar

There’s been a lot of handwringing about violence directed against police officers by the January 6th mob. You’ve cited several statistics about this yourself. Given their overwhelming support for Trump, either police officers themselves don’t believe the allegations or they believe the allegations were exaggerated or they don’t care. Don’t you think that’s relevant?

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Claire Berlinski's avatar

No, I don't.

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E Hines's avatar

I'll only address a couple of points of your hysterical rant.

The riot at the Capitol--and of course that's all it was--was hardly provoked by a President who, in speaking that day, cannot travel back in time: the core of the rioters had already been gathering at the Capitol before he began to speak. Further, if you read the transcript of his speech, you'd understand that while he encouraged his listeners to fight, he told them to go to the Capitol and protest peacefully. If you're going to indict Trump over his "fight," if that's the basis for your claim he incited the riot, then you have also to indict every high school cheerleader who inveighs the fans and the team to "Fight, Fight, Fight," and you must indict every Congressman who calls for his fellows to fight like hell against this bill or for that one on the floor of the House or Senate. "Fighting" for this or that is a hoary-with-age figure of speech.

In the meantime, you don't mention that the persons in charge of Capitol security, the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, and the Senate Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer, were offered 10,000 National Guardsmen by Trump to enhance security, and Pelosi turned them down. Trump had nothing to do with starting that riot, no matter how desperate the press, or you, are to ascribe blame.

Nor was there any effort on Trump's part to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power, only attempts--legal, mind you--to get alternate Electors considered and existing Electors not counted, a peaceful and legal tactic practiced by the Progressive-Democratic Party in past Presidential Elector certifications at least as far back as the Bush the Younger certification.

You claim the riot caused $3M in damage to the Capitol. The Zuccotti Park insurrection cost $13M. The insurrection in Minneapolis-St Paul cost $500M just from the arson and looting. Many of those businesses destroyed have still not restarted, much less rebuilt. The insurrection in Seattle the city settled for $10M. Settlements often are for much less than actual damages, but I don't know that to be the case here. In any event, that insurrection's destruction also remains: the auto shop next to the insurrector-occupied police precinct is a weed-strewn empty lot today. A brewery remains closed. Buildings remain scarred with graffiti. Women were raped and people shot, and the driven-out police were not allowed(!) back in to deal with those cases, and neither were medical emergency vehicles. Nevertheless, that was just Seattle's Summer of Love.

The Portland insurrection, which included deliberate attempts to burn down a Federal building with occupants still trapped in it, cost that city: the insurrectors did $1.3M in damage to the single building and cost the city over $12M and the Feds another $12M in dealing with the insurrectors. Vandalism and looting cost the city another $5M. The Portland mayor actively objected to Federal officers coming in to enhance security at the building. He was unsuccessful in that, but at the time, DHS was wholly unprepared and the deployed personnel wholly untrained for dealing with an insurrection inside the United States. On top of that, the city council blocked the Portland police from cooperating with Federal officers in the latter's attempts to secure the building.

Finally, I'm not aware that a woman with an unwholesome interest in Dalmatian puppies would be attending a mob funeral.

Eric Hines

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Claire Berlinski's avatar

I'll address only five points in your histrionic screed:

1. There is no evidence for Trump's story about offering 10,000 National Guardsmen to Pelosi. https://newbedfordlight.org/trumps-claim-that-pelosi-turned-down-national-guard-help-on-jan-6-is-just-fantasy/.

2. You cannot believe that Trump had "nothing to do" with starting that riot. Come on.

3. Trump's attempts to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power were not legal, which is why he was being prosecuted for it in Georgia and federally. He was not exonerated. He just ran out the clock. His efforts were fraudulent, coercive, immoral, and deeply undemocratic, and they did irreparable damage to our country.

4. The word "insurrection" has a definition, both in common use and legally. Common use, from Britannica: "an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by violence." Legal use: Title 18 U.S. Code 2383. Here's an explainer: https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/rebellion-or-insurrection. None of the examples you list conform to either definition. But this is, however, just a matter of definition. If you'd like to call what happened in those events "insurrections," it makes no difference to my argument. We can call them insurrections; we can call them kumquats. My views about anyone who assaults cops in Seattle or Minneapolis are exactly the same as my views about anyone who assaults a cop at the Capitol: They belong in the clink, and if their jail cells are cold, they should've thought of that before assaulting a cop. (By the way, Jenny Durkin, the nitwit mayor who called it the "summer of love, " was subsequently pretty much run out of town on a rail: That was too much, even for Seattle.)

5. I'm not sure why you think the damage done in Minneapolis or Seattle is relevant to the argument. Are you suggesting that I favor clemency for the Minneapolis kumquats? You know better. Before, then. now, and in between, my views on kumquats, riots, insurrections, violence, and coups have never varied: They represent crimes against the polity and crimes against democracy; we should have no tolerance for them, and the perpetrators--especially those who kill cops--must face serious jail time.

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E Hines's avatar

Your "debunking" of the guardsmen offer is risible on its face, being based solely on news and opinion outlets. Pelosi has said it was her responsibility, and she declined the offer.

Absent any evidence to the contrary, it's easy to believe Trump had nothing to do with the riot at the Capitol.

Guilt by accusation--come on, Claire. In the United States the presumption of innocence is paramount. Have you read the trial transcripts? That's the only evidence that can be taken seriously.

My point in bringing up the insurrections seems obvious: your blowing out of proportion a riot while ignoring four insurrections.

Eric Hines

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TJW's avatar

I hope Canada (and other decent NATO countries) make a very public offer to take in the already-vetted Afghan refugees.

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Claire Berlinski's avatar

I do too, but I'm sure that they will not.

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Silke Silke's avatar

Thanks 💐💐💐

In one aspect pardoning the Capitol attackers is incredibly stupid.

It kills the inviobality of that place. He should be very scared of anyone who knows how to charme masses

Royals always united in condemning the murder of a reigning one.

Even amidst the fighting in WW1 when the Tsar was killed Churchill was aghast

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Josh of Arc's avatar

Yep. He’s opening the door to political violence in multiple directions. If the president is going to try to use outside militias in order to do his bidding so as to intimidate and punish political adversaries, then others have every right to target his own surrogates in the same way. If Republicans are going to accept and enable this from Trump, they should expect the same sort of extra-judicial violence to be targeted at them. Watch out GOP!

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Silke Silke's avatar

Maybe a look at the SA (Sturmabteilung) and the Röhm Putsch ( Nacht der langen Messer) could offer ideas 😠

To my shame I must adtmit that I never read up on it even though my elders mentioned the latter often in hushed tones.

AbIk.SA won assembly hoise battles (Saalschlachten) against communistts bc whose couldn't unite over policy. By 1933 they could no longer dare to attend parliament leaving the socialists the only to say no to the Ermächtigungsgesetz.

May the pardoned ones never be able to gain momentum

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WigWag's avatar

It really was quite a day 1 for the new President. My favorite part was Trump’s speech during the inugaratuon; especially the moment where he repudiated everything that his miserable predecessors stood for with them sitting only a few feet away. The horrified looks on the faces of Clinton, Bush and Obama were unforgettable. Whether Trump can restore the American vitality that those poseurs sapped remains to be seen.

It’s no wonder that sore losers abound. So much of what they hold dear has been repudiated by the American people. Respect for global institutions; toppled. Globalism itself; in retreat. An abiding passion for permanent war; defenestrated. Neoconservatism; demolished. Neoliberalism; eviscerated. The racism of DEI; down for the count. Open borders; a thing of the past.

During his speech, Trump didn’t have much to say about foreign policy. Maybe he felt he didn’t need to. We learned all we needed to know by scrutinizing the foreign leaders invited to the festivities. Meloni was there. Meili was there. Orban was invited but couldn’t make it. Starmer, Macron and Scholz were nowhere in sight though Scholz did make an appearance at the World Economic forum which is a perfect venue for a leader of his ilk. As for Starmer, one has to wonder whether Trump will ever lower himself by agreeing to meet with the Prime Minister Two-Tier.

And yes, it was quite a day for pardons. Fauci was pardoned and so were all of the inquisitors on the January 6th Committee. Most notably, the Torquemada look alike, Liz Cheney, got her “get-out of jail free” card.

The rambunctious rioters from January 6th were reprieved. Despite the best efforts of the lame-stream media to label their obnoxious behavior as an insurrection, the American people weren’t buying it. During the campaign, Trump promised pardons; as soon as he could, he delivered pardons. To balance things off, there were big smiles on the faces of the leadership of the Biden crime family; they happily accepted pardons too.

There’s one thing you can say for Joe Biden. He spent four long years screwing Americans but at least at the end, he came through for his mishpocha.

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Rick S's avatar

Yea when I saw some of the exec orders, I did think.. whoa we weren’t doing that?

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Russell-Dad Whiting's avatar

" I fault Biden for many things. Everything, really. But not for keeping his family out of Trump’s clutches. It is about the only thing he’s done, recently, that I have liked." Liked? Really?

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Leroy Ortiz's avatar

I knew it was coming, but it's still shocking to see.

My friend has finally gone over the edge. Trump has himself to blame, by being just enough of a Lincoln admirer to provide ammo for anyone who looks to see things in the worst light possible for himself, or his "followers". It's astounding that "people I listen to", and "I have heard" does so much work here. Where have you been the last 4 years? Everything you saw was filtered through the "I hate Trump more" filter. You deride TDS, but use Dictator more than the MAGA loonies use Treason, for every little thing.

You think you know about the J6 "Insurrection", but in reality, none of us really do, because the whole thing wasn't shown, as evidenced by your choice of clips. Missing are the citizens who spent time in jail for just walking in a building.

The right does the same thing with the killing of Ashley Babbitt, which was a sad, but lawful shooting. Good people refuse to accept that, the same way good people refuse to accept that Trump, or Biden are dictators. How exactly does that work? How exactly would the "insurrection" have worked?

Biden pardoned anyone who might have been subjected to criminal charges, and it's framed as protecting them from Trump. Why? These people committed crimes, and were given cover. Gen Milley admitted he would warn our enemy if we decided to attack. How did such an honorable man descend to this low? If not treason, then what is it?

Biden constantly pushed for things that he admitted are unconstitutional, and his various agencies constantly infringed on the rights of people all over the country. There are people in jail for things he pardoned his son for. A 10 year, blanket pardon.

Trump shouldn't have pardoned EVERYONE, but what the hell, it seems like the thing now.

For anyone to be surprised by all this, and pretending like it's a first, is just delusional. Look around, look at Obama's time, look at Biden's (or whoever was in charge) time. Look at the DEI Marxist bullshit that permeates our society, and ask yourself who brought it on? We all know it wasn't MAGA.

Biden nominated a SCOTUS justice because she was black. That and her leftist ideology. Remember when she said she wasn't a biologist, so she couldn't tell what a woman was? She's not a gunsmith, an accountant, or anything else, but will rule on those issues in a heartbeat.

Trump certainly has his sycophants, but don't think for a minute that the right is so in love with him that they will willingly give up their right to him.

Forgive me for the rant, and somewhat disjointed nature of it, but I was trying to multi-task with my demanding cat.

I remain your friend,

Leroy

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tom flemming's avatar

"You think you know about the J6 "Insurrection", but in reality, none of us really do, because *the whole thing wasn't shown*, as evidenced by your choice of clips. "

So it's only a revolution if it *is* televised after all?!

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Leroy Ortiz's avatar

Do you mean Insurrection? Who was charged with insurrection? How was it going to work? How would the riots lead to anything?

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tom flemming's avatar

No. I was taking a pop at the idea that we don't really know anything about something unless we're "[shown] the whole thing". If that were true, I guess none of us would ever know much about anything we didn't personally witness.

Criminal due process works pretty well, with and without video evidence. The insurrection act hasn't been used afaik, but some seditious conspiracy convictions were secured - https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-oath-keepers-found-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-related-us-capitol-breach.

It seems pretty clear to me that there was a serious conspiracy to prevent the certification of the 2020 election result, although equally clearly not everyone who entered the capitol was involved. "Insurrection" isn't the obvious word that comes to mind to characterise that.

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Leroy Ortiz's avatar

I have no problem with those sentences. What galls, is watching the destruction and chaos of previous years, including Trump's first inauguration, where absolutely nothing happened, and the jailing of anyone even present near the capitol. People were put in jail over unconstitutional charges.

We never can know everything when charging someone, but we should at least try to look at what we have available.

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tom flemming's avatar

How many people do you think were jailed - maybe tens of thousands? I can't see those numbers myself. About 1500 charged is all I can find.

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Rick "MSLP" Jones's avatar

>"Yet, that drunken rabble reached Paris in 1814 and Berlin in 1945."

OK, but that was only after the armies of France and Germany, respectively, had had their asses handed to them by the Russian winters.

I spent most of my adult life in elite combat arms branches of the U.S. military, and I've been watching the Ukraine war closely. There is little doubt in my mind that if the U.S. had properly supported Ukraine, Ukraine would have cleaned slate months ago. Everybody wants to quantify war, and so few people really understand the qualitative intangibles, such as distributed command vs centralized command, and what a force multiplier it is. Or Napoleon's observation that the moral is the the physical as 3 is to 1. In the absence of nukes or other WMDs, Russia wouldn't stand a chance going up against a full NATO effort. Not a chance in hell.

As far as Trump goes, in my view this is the culmination of a decades-long effort that probably began with Lewis Powell's 1971 memorandum to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. We now have the centralization and alignment of the Executive, the Legislative and the Judicial branches, not to mention corporate interests and more. It will definitely be a rough few years, but there's no use whining about it. In many ways the Democrats brought this on themselves. I find solace—and an outlet for my money and energy—in Movement Labs' Contest Every Race effort: https://www.contesteveryrace.com/. That's where I will be spending my time and efforts.

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Claire Berlinski's avatar

I agree that the Democrats brought this on themselves--though this should not be put in the same moral category as the GOP's slavish capitulation to a lawless con artist. I do get angrier at Biden and the enablers around him by the day.

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Steve Fleischer's avatar

Stacey Abrams!!!

You lost your argument when you presented Abrams as a credible testimony.

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Rick "MSLP" Jones's avatar

Where do you see any mention of Stacey Abrams?

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Steve Fleischer's avatar

You gave us a link. If you actually go on the link where you promised to spend time, you will see (prominently) an endorsement by Abrams.

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Rick "MSLP" Jones's avatar

OK, now I get it . . . you were never trained in recognizing and avoiding informal logical fallacies, or—it would appear—in reading comprehension.

The fact that Contest Every Race mentions Stacey Abrams has nothing—nada! zip! zero!—to do with the viability or efficacy of their efforts. To connect the two is guilt by association at the very least, with a light dusting of ad hominen sprinkled on top.

Also, it would appear that reading comprehension isn't in your quiver, either. Because when you say that I lost my argument, anyone with reading comprehension skills would note that I wasn't making an argument. I was simply saying what I intend to do. I did not try to persuade anyone else to join me.

I see why The Donald once said he loves the poorly educated.

Good day to you, sir.

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Steve Fleischer's avatar

Are you as much of a pompous horse's ass as you seem?

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Rick "MSLP" Jones's avatar

Well, I don't see myself that way. But I can certainly understand why someone who's poorly educated—that is to say, someone who lacks reading comprehension skills and who doesn't understand basic informal logic—might see me that way.

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Caroline Smrstik's avatar

I agree with your military analysis. The US missed the opportunity to step in to fully support Ukraine; we could have been rebuilding by now. And yes, Russia would not stand a chance against a full NATO effort. What worries me most is that there may not *be* a full NATO effort.

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Leroy Ortiz's avatar

I seriously doubt it. There is also no doubt that if EU had properly supported Ukraine, this wouldn't have happened.

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Tanju Yurukoglu's avatar

been there, seen this movie before

it won't end well

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James Quinn's avatar

Unfortunately there are plenty of precedents for elements of all this, starting with John Adams and the Alien and Sedition Acts in 1798, echoes of which were again put into place during WWI.

The most egregious act of any similar nature was, of course, the Japanese Interments of WWII.

Another example was the exclusion of almost all women from the franchise until 1920.

Trump himself would have been right at home as a member of the southern slavocracy which ruled Congress virtually until Abraham Lincoln’s election, at which point they committed political and military suicide beginning with the shelling of Fort Sumpter.

The violent labor disputes of the last quarter of the nineteenth century when the Robber Barons coopted the US military in putting down workers’ strikes was yet another moment of near oligarchic rule, aided and abetted by the Supreme Court.

Joe McCarthy and his cohorts (including Richard Nixon) presided over a mass purge of Americans with the willing help of HUAC (House on un-American Activites, which group had more than a little in common with the current House Oversight Committee(and revenge) Committee under James Comer.

And of course Nixon’s later use of the FBI and CIA to monitor in-country dissidents during the final years of the Vietnam War was yet another example of such things.

No, we are not fighting a new battle here, only echoes of one that has been going on nearly ever since our beginnings. Anyone who thinks that Lincoln was speaking only of his own time when he referred to ‘a Great Civil War testing whether that nation or any nation so concieved and so dedicated can long endure”.

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Leroy Ortiz's avatar

I have to disagree with you about Trump being with the South. It was a different time, of course, but were Trump a Republican, he would have sided with our 1st dictator, Abraham Lincoln. NOTHING since the Civil War compares to what the North did to the South. The destruction of the South is incomparable. Not to mean the South was without sin, of course. The Lincoln quote is rich, considering he was doing the destroying.

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James Quinn's avatar

You mean apart from the fact that it was the south that started the war?

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Leroy Ortiz's avatar

Never said they were without blame, and it was indeed stupid of them to fall for Lincoln's trap. The total destruction of the South was a steep price to pay for that mistake, tens of thousands of innocent people were murdered, including many slaves. Bummer Gangs were a real thing.

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James Quinn's avatar

They didn’t fall for a trap. Yes, if there was going to be a war Lincoln did want the South to make the first move because he knew that without that he could not expect to marshal sufficient backing in the north for a war to keep the nation one. (FDR understood something of the same thing nearly a century later). But the Charlestonians’ decision to fire on Sumpter was not based on anything Lincoln said because in fact, he had pledged not to interfere with slavey where it already existed because the Constitution did not prevent it. In their excitement and hubris they just chose not to accept that.

The level of destruction in the south was entirely up to the south. One historian put it this way - those who fired on Sumpter were most effective of the emancipators. A southerner, James Petigru noted that “South Carolina is too small for a nation, but too large for an insane asylum”. Another thought that all the blood that would be shed could be mopped up with a handkerchief.

Many southerners were under the delusion that they were more than a match for northern numbers and industrial potential. Many of them made he same mistake Hitler did in assuming Americans lacked ’the stuff’ to mount a sufficient war effort.

Any competent Southern military expert or sensible legislator knew after July of 1863, after Gettysburg and Vicksburg that the South had effectively already lost. Still they persisted. At that point, destruction in the south was minimal.

I don’t countenance what those outriders along the fringes of Sherman’s march did, although of course some of them were southerners making hay of the destruction. But if history teaches anyone anything, It is that war takes on a life of its own. Sir Edward Gray, the British Foreign Secretary understood that (unlike many at the time, and many in the South half a century earlier who thought it would be quick and romantic) as he watched Europe descend into the maelstrom of WWI, “The lamps are going out all over Europe. We shall not see them lit again in our lifetime”.

I often hear echoes of his understanding today as so many are out there rattling sabers once again. Only of course Sir Edward would have modified his thought, substituting ‘world’ for 'Europe’, and ‘ever’ for ‘in our lifetime’.

.

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Leroy Ortiz's avatar

Ever actually read any of the diaries of those doing the destroying? Not outliers at all. Meridian Miss, is just one example. No surprise you believe what you do, I was taught the same thing. Anyway, good day.

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Matheus Martins Costa's avatar

I think people like you (and me and probably most of Cosmo readers) keep being shocked by the actions coming from Trump and his ilk because, despite them being predictable and announced, they are so alien to our moral frameworks that we can never *emotionally* convince ourselves that someone would actually carry them out.

When reading about history or rationally considering what might happen, there's always a level of disconnect that we can never eliminate, no matter how hard we try, and so we are never truly ready for how it feels seeing it in reality. Call it some fundamental aspect of human psyche (I'd love if an specialist gave their thoughts on this).

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Leroy Ortiz's avatar

We saw this during the Biden years. Who would have thought that we couldn't tell men and women apart, men would use women's bathrooms, men would wear dresses in the military, gas stoves would be banned, the cars we drive would be mandated, NY prosecutors would campaign on getting a particular private citizen, NY would change the statute of limitations law to go after that particular citizen, drag queens would have shows for kids, in public libraries, a president would unlawfully "forgive" student debt, would force people into an unwanted healthcare plan, and on and on.

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