A Dark Shining Moment

Watch our conversation with Chris Zappone

If you missed our conversation with Chris Zappone, you can watch it below. We ended up speaking for more than three hours—it was a great conversation, thank you, Chris!—so I’ve edited it down to a more manageable 50-minutes.

I did the editing with AI, and I’m still not completely fluent with the editing software. So if the cuts seem jumpy—and if I randomly, shout “papaya!” or “jibber!”—it’s because I’m still learning how it works and I haven’t paid for the full version of the program yet. (They throw in random “papayas” and “jibbers” to get you to pony up. I’m not sure yet whether I want to buy it. Still, it’s fun to experiment with it, and what are a few random exclamations of “papaya!” among friends?)

If the “papayas” annoy you, you can sponsor our purchase of the premium service. (It will require more than one of you. It isn’t cheap.)

I’ll post our conversation with Peter Zeihan, too, as soon as I’ve put up the Elephant Cage. (Today is multimedia day.)

If you haven’t yet listened to Dark Shining Moment:

It was the moment the 21st Century began in earnest: In 2016, Russia reached out across the internet and interfered with America’s democracy, setting the conditions that helped propel Donald Trump into the White House.

A “Dark Shining Moment” tells the story of the first people to detect Russia’s interference—before that pivotal election. It’s a narrative about how information has been used to create a new reality for the public, for democracies and for the world—kicking off the crisis we’re in today.

Listen to it first, then come back for the discussion.